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master resellers?
| Posted by okihost, 06-27-2009, 02:36 AM |
| I have seen this term used 4-5 times in my reading this week.. Is this just a new term for reseller accounts that allow overselling to make it not sound like what it actually is?
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| Posted by IGXHost, 06-27-2009, 02:56 AM |
| Master resellers are basically reseller accounts with the ability to create sub-reseller accounts along with standard accounts. This ability is usually granted by a 3rd party plugin, mostly for cPanel/WHM.
There are also "Alpha Resellers". These accounts are able to create master resellers, resellers, and standard accounts.
These types of accounts usually lead to overselling of course and are often offered cheap. In fact, the only reputable master reseller provider that comes to mind is MellowHost.
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| Posted by Dustin B Cisneros, 06-27-2009, 03:01 AM |
| Very true regarding the reseller,master reseller, aplha but im not to sure of MellowHost never heard of them.
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| Posted by MattS, 06-27-2009, 03:39 AM |
| I remember Mellow Host. I don't see them around much anymore, I wonder what happened.
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| Posted by andrewklau, 06-27-2009, 03:52 AM |
| Master reseller can get very difficult, depending on what your doing and who your selling to. It can be a risk, as even if you only have 5 clients on the server you may find over 300 domains being hosted there. (That's if you run your own server)
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| Posted by KMyers, 06-27-2009, 08:02 AM |
| Just to clairify,
Master Reseller (Or Even Alpha) reseller accounts DO NOT mean overselling. With that said, Most Master Resellers do oversell. Master Resellers can sell Sub Reseller Accounts as well as standard shared hosting. If you are looking for Master Reseller Hosting Consider the following.
Go with a host that does not oversell their Master Plans - They also call this "Semi-Dedicated" or "Virtual Dedicated Servers(VDS)"STAY AWAY FROM UNLIMITED Master ResellersDo not go with the "Cheepest" Host you can find - This is often a sign of overselling.
http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=870325
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| Posted by CyberWorldHosting, 06-27-2009, 08:05 AM |
| Good points. Remember all they won't is your money.
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| Posted by KMyers, 06-27-2009, 08:10 AM |
| Just to add to my above post, with Master Reseller, you should expect to spend cclose to $45-$50 per month for 25 GB of Space for Master Reseller Hosting
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| Posted by CyberWorldHosting, 06-27-2009, 09:06 AM |
| 50$ is a lot for master.
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| Posted by IGXHost, 06-27-2009, 09:49 AM |
| It sounds reasonable to me. There are so many web hosts out there offering master and alpha reseller plans for such low monthly or even annual prices as well as offering "unlimited" resources. This is when servers with master resellers become so unstable and overloaded.
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| Posted by ldcdc, 06-27-2009, 09:59 AM |
| Then there's Super alpha master resellers accounts too. It'll never end!
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| Posted by iHubNet-Matt, 06-27-2009, 10:00 AM |
| If you try to browse through the forum you can see a lot of thread/posts describing the problems with master reseller accounts. So it seems most of the web masters won't recommend you to go with a alpha/master reseller accounts.
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| Posted by KMyers, 06-27-2009, 06:40 PM |
| The problem is there are so many "kiddie" hosts that try to offer "Unlimited Alpha Reseller" hosting for $7.99 a month. That is definately a recipe for failure.
I myself have offered a small number of Alpha Resellers on a seperate sever on a pilot basis for the past 2 months. I have never had a problem and the server load is normally less trhen 1.00 at peak.
It all comes down to proper server management.
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| Posted by wbacky, 06-27-2009, 07:10 PM |
| I would have to agree proper server management is key. If you do not maintain the server and take a proactive approach you are doomed to failure.
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| Posted by Dustin B Cisneros, 06-29-2009, 12:38 PM |
| Also super duper one's now. jk someone here must of said huhhhhh.
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| Posted by KMyers, 06-29-2009, 12:44 PM |
| There actually is, I believe it is called "Tetra" Master Reseller - But you would need to be INSANE to offer that.
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| Posted by IGXHost, 06-29-2009, 01:27 PM |
| Well, bottom line is, master and alpha resellers are just a way for someone to find a cheap way to start a web hosting business. Unfortunately, it never turns out too well for those individuals.
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| Posted by AquariusStorage, 06-29-2009, 01:32 PM |
| I don't see how you can correctly manage a alpha reseller server because 5 people can easily fill the whole server up with domains faster then you can terminate them... particular doom going with a unlimited provider.
Personally I think if you need the power of a Master Reseller, then go with a VPS. If you don't know how to administrate a server, pickup a management plan or go with a managed VPS provider. What is so hard to understand about that
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| Posted by KMyers, 06-29-2009, 01:33 PM |
| I gotta disagree with you on that or at least make a correction - Mis-Managed Alpha, Master and Reseller hosting is bad, no matter which way you look at it.
You can start off with a Master or Alpha Reseller account if you are dedicated to hosting. If you do it right, you will outgrow it and move up.
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| Posted by KMyers, 06-29-2009, 01:37 PM |
| That would be an example of "Mis-Management", I am against "Unlimited" Master and "Unlimited" Alpha reseller plans because they are doomed to fail. In my case I will only put 2-5 Master or Alpha Resellers on a server with realistic limit.
I did some research and I do not see a difference between a stable Master Reseller Host and a VPS aside from Root Access.
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| Posted by AquariusStorage, 06-29-2009, 01:39 PM |
| Chances are one of the other master resellers may outgrow it before you, refuse to move on, and then Houston, we have a problem. Most master reseller providers (on average) are incapable of determining the user causing the load on average, simply because of the fact they are ran by 16 year olds trying to make a quick buck, and end up collapsing.
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| Posted by KMyers, 06-29-2009, 01:43 PM |
| Did you call me 16? I am just kidding. Granted there have been countless hosts who offer Master and Alpha reseller and fail, that is not the case with ALL of them. I am not a Kiddie Host but I do understand why you say that. I just want to make it clear that I not all Master Reseller hosts are evil.
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| Posted by AquariusStorage, 06-29-2009, 01:49 PM |
| I had signatures turned off
It's unfortunately a stereotype however in my experience, the master reseller software I used was buggy/broken about a year ago, and after reading the horror stories of customers who chose master reseller providers, I simply usually recommend against it. Didn't notice you happened to sell it when I made that comment
Point being, if there is someone in the industry who is wiling to offer master reseller solutions at an acceptable price (not 7.99/per mont) make a profit, and provide a good/decent service, then you have have something here. Unfortunately your competing in an industry where almost every normal shared/reseller/vps provider will recommend against ever setting foot near.
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| Posted by KMyers, 06-29-2009, 01:57 PM |
| LOL - In truth Stereotypes can cause damage. I do not have a 7.99 per month plan at all. In my case my costs are realistic but when I do a quick "google", I am finding hosts with costs as low as 5.99 for Master Reseller.
I do agree with your software gripe, I have tested several Master Reseller Scripts and have settled with ZamFoo as I have found it to be the most stable. My only complaint thus far is that several of the features have a "Coming Soon" next to them. It is definitely usable.
Also in my "google" search, I found several VPS's for $6.99 per month. They only have 2.5 GB Space and 64 MB RAM. I would not want a host to use that.
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| Posted by zipcode, 06-29-2009, 02:36 PM |
| Master reseller sounds like an overloading problem waiting to happen if you ask me. If you want to resell "reseller" plans then a dedicated server is the only stable way to offer this service to your clients.
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| Posted by 2012Panda, 07-01-2009, 07:01 PM |
| Its been out for years now, its just simply allowing your reseller accounts to have the ability to sell reseller accounts. Note: Once your reseller accounts have sold their reseller accounts, no more reseller accounts can be setup, the process ends here.
Confusing, but read it again and again, you will soon get it.
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| Posted by PeakVPN-KH, 07-01-2009, 07:56 PM |
| Which software did you use? I've seen several different master reseller plugins but I've heard that most had limited support or highly insecure.
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| Posted by AquariusStorage, 07-01-2009, 09:13 PM |
| Highly insecure is an understatement. Did you guys hear about one of the popular Master Reseller systems was taking users root password, storing it as a variable, and sending it back to creators of the Master Reseller software. Once busted, they blamed it on "debugging code left in a production release".
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| Posted by KMyers, 07-01-2009, 10:42 PM |
| I currently use ZamFoo
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| Posted by PeakVPN-KH, 07-01-2009, 10:48 PM |
| Yep, I saw that and that was actually what I was referring to actually Zamfoo and Deasoft(WHMReseller) both got caught:
http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showt...php?p=10916340 - WHMReseller busted March 16, 2009
http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showt...php?p=11784668 - Zamfoo busted June 25, 2009
That would be enough to tell me that the owners are probably the same or closely connected. Stay far away... Interestingly enough, you'll notice WHMReseller's competitor (Zamfoo) username: hostydotnet - actually defends WHMreseller (Deasoft). This was a little while before Zamfoo got caught doing the same thing. Something VERY fishy.
Last edited by PeakVPN-KH; 07-01-2009 at 11:02 PM.
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| Posted by KMyers, 07-01-2009, 11:08 PM |
| Also, I do believe them on this one, I know it has happened with Deason Master Reseller (Deasoft Reseller) and ZamFoo. These IMHO were tragic mistakes that I know will cost them some of their customers.
Think about this for a second. If the manufacturers of the Master Reseller applications wanted to attack your server, it is much easier for them to write a trojan horse and embed it into the scripts. Since WHM runs with root privilages, If they made a trojan, it too would run as root (No password needed)
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| Posted by PeakVPN-KH, 07-01-2009, 11:11 PM |
| Oh no I agree. I guess I'm just paranoid... I feel that if it was emailing them the passwords and were completely sincere, then they would have released a patch immediately. Neither released patches until at which point it become public knowledge. When you start talking PCI compliance and fines... It's just not worth it to me. They still have plenty of customers and I say good luck. If you trust them, then that's all that matters.
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| Posted by KMyers, 07-01-2009, 11:25 PM |
| I think I can explain
Hosty.net was a small host that offered Reseller Hosting using Deasoft. They were one of the largest supporters of Deasoft. However over time several bugs were found in Deasoft and Hosty.net started development on ZamFoo. Now they are at war.
They are NOT Affiliated with each other.
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| Posted by bjdea1, 07-02-2009, 09:16 AM |
| Goodness me. Reading the last few posts in this thread about root passwords being sent etc, this is completely false, it never happened.
There was never any root password information being sent by email back to us. Its so frustrating seeing you guys talk about this as though its some proven fact. The guy who posted that thread in digitalpoint forums was COMPLETELY WRONG and I believe maliciously trying to attack our product. Don't so quickly believe just anything you read.
I explained fully in my reply why this was FALSE and UNTRUE. Of course we would NEVER do that. Any business that did that would be OUT OF BUSINESS. Seriously guys - think about what you're saying.
This was a malicious attack on our product from a nasty person, plain and simple. Here's my reply to that post:
All I can say is that the spreading of such false and malicious rumors is illegal and completely wrong. It tries to characterize deasoft as dishonest and untrustworthy which is totally FALSE and I hope you guys are able to see this.
Last edited by bjdea1; 07-02-2009 at 09:30 AM.
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| Posted by KMyers, 07-02-2009, 09:26 AM |
| Please correct me if I am wrong, but diddnt "coolstuff0000" also make the same post about ZamFoo? This is beginning to look Fishy in a way.
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| Posted by bjdea1, 07-02-2009, 09:42 AM |
| Yes it fishy, I would like to know who this "coolstuff0000" person really is. I am the developer of WHMreseller, I wrote the code and I know this guy is flat out lying !
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| Posted by KMyers, 07-02-2009, 09:52 AM |
| I know your the developer. I have used your software in the past (I had a VPS and the provider purchased a copy of Deasoft for each VPS if you choose cPanel). I really liked the layout of the software but there were a few problems with server load after running it. This is the reason why I choose ZamFoo.
But yes, I also noticed that the threads were worded almost exactly the same as well. I wonder if he even has a Deasoft or Zamfoo License or even has a place to run it on.
Back to the topic. bjdea1 You have offered Master Reseller hosting for a LONG time, I would even go out on a limb to say you were one of the first. I am sure that you will agree that Master Reselling can be done right. If it is done right, there is a minimal risk of any danger.
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| Posted by bjdea1, 07-02-2009, 10:19 AM |
| I am the guy who invented the Master Reseller concept. WHMreseller was the first Master Reseller product on the market.
Many years back I saw that the reason many small hosts purchased VPS's was just so they could sell WHM's to their clients. VPS's back then were more expensive than they are now, plus there's the cpanel licensing cost also. So I came up with the idea of creating a mini control panel that would allow Master Resellers to manage multiple WHM accounts.
Yes of course it can be done right. I've watched people say negative things about our software for years. All the scare mongering, "it will overload the server", "its unstable", "stay away from Master Reseller Hosts"...etc etc. Its been very frustrating to see these kind of things being said when it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the concept and software and EVERYTHING to do with the WEB HOST and how its MANAGED. Things don't go out of control like some people seem to think. WHMreseller has boundaries and limits designed to control everything. It all depends on the Host. If they are stupid or lazy or greedy then no matter what software they use it will be used wrongly. If the Host has common sense then it will work fine like anything else on the server.
I remember there was a time when some were saying the basic reseller concept in cPanel was going to lead to overloaded servers. People say all kind of things, for all kinds of reasons. Some Hosts simply don't like the idea because they don't yet have it themselves and they don't like the idea of their competitors having an advantage.
Like I said in a previous post, don't believe everything you read in these forums. Its just people speculating and talking about stuff when half of them don't really know all the facts.
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| Posted by KMyers, 07-02-2009, 11:24 AM |
| One small addition, The last time I used Deasoft WHMReseller was a year ago. I am sure that the problems I had with performance may have been fixed in the newer versions. I may try it on my next new server. I will contact you via PM with a simple question in a sec
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| Posted by PeakVPN-KH, 07-02-2009, 12:10 PM |
| Well I have to say that I'm glad to see your response. I can see where you've been falsely accused and I did know that you were originator of this entire idea. I feel a little better about it by knowing there is someone actively out there and caring about their product and business. Digitalpoint is kind of bad about this sort of thing anyway. So it's good to see someone stand up for themselves so we can sort through the fictional bs to get to the facts.
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| Posted by KMyers, 07-02-2009, 12:33 PM |
| One thing I forgot, Thank You for pointing out that ANY server, even a standard reseller host can overload the servers if not properly managed. Master Reseller Hosting is not evil - Poor Management is.
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| Posted by tmcpro, 07-03-2009, 09:31 PM |
| its a reseller account that allows you to create more sub-reseller accounts. Highly against this due to overselling like crazy.
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| Posted by wbacky, 07-03-2009, 09:33 PM |
| I agree this does allow for way to much overselling which eventually only hurts all the unsuspecting clients.
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| Posted by bjdea1, 07-03-2009, 10:49 PM |
| Not if the server is being managed.
If a server has a load that's starting to increase then the administrator should stop setting up new accounts on that server. Pretty simple really, and its the same with or without Master Reseller Software. It may happen quicker on a Master Reseller server but the administrator will have plenty of time (months) with which to watch the load increase and do something about it. If worst comes to worse the administrator could move the most resource intensive accounts to a new server.
If you're a Web Host (administrator) who likes to fall asleep at the wheel and never check the condition of their servers, then yes I would not recommend you install a Master Reseller Script on your server.
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