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GreenValueHost - 1 Week Review
| Posted by John - 24HL, 02-21-2013, 07:48 PM |
| Last edited by John - 24HL; 02-21-2013 at 07:58 PM.
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-21-2013, 08:01 PM |
| You signed up for a reseller account and your website was a direct target of a large DDoS attack and out datacenter null routed your IP to prevent further damage to our server.
We looked into the issue in to why your website might have been attacked, and we found out that you were posting advertisements in multiple hacking community websites such as hackforums. We found that you were using your reseller account to advertise the hosting of botnet programs as well as other malicious content.
When we looked into your account, we found that you were hosting not one but two hacking community websites filled with illegal hacking tools and content, hacking tutorials, server exploits, and other hacking-related content. Not only that but you were hosting other very questionable content as well as a file hosting website.
We asked you before we did investigation about the content of your websites and you straight up lied to our faces.
After our management staff decided to terminate your account, you went on our Live Chat and insulted us, saying that you hope we lose money. Before that, you went over to PayPal and claimed that you never received any service and initiated a PayPal chargeback.
We never said we had DDoS Protection, We never said we had DDoS mitigation. We answered all of your tickets below 20 minutes time.
Considering everything that you've done and multiple violations of our ToS, we confronted YOU about your refund and said that you won't be receiving one. You didn't confront US.
You're just basically straight up lying to everyone because you're upset that we took down all your hacking software, hacking community forums and terminated your account. That's all there is to it.
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| Posted by TravisT-[SSS], 02-21-2013, 08:02 PM |
| Problem is even if a provider has DDoS protection they can't always protect you. It really depends on the size of the attacks. Real DDoS protection prices $100s to $1000s
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| Posted by ArtieT, 02-21-2013, 08:03 PM |
| The quick summary for anyone who doesn't want to read the whole thread.
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| Posted by John - 24HL, 02-21-2013, 08:03 PM |
| You guys said you had DDoS protection and you were migrating the attack.
Picture: http://gyazo.com/3022b0ca3128aa3995f...png?1361491389
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-21-2013, 08:05 PM |
| We have CSF Firewall protection, that's pretty much it. We tracked the attack back down to your website and the attack was mitigated by null routing your IP.
There's nothing really to say here except we terminated your account because you decided to host illegal hacking content.
For anyone wanting proof that his site is plastered all over hacking community forums, take a look at his WHT thread and google his domain.
http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1237697
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| Posted by SurrealScripts, 02-21-2013, 08:09 PM |
| That's pretty much it" as in you don't have DDoS protection and DDoS migration as you advertise? You guys seem to be the ones at fault.
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| Posted by ArtieT, 02-21-2013, 08:11 PM |
| CSF Firewall is now DDoS protection?
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| Posted by SeriesN, 02-21-2013, 08:13 PM |
| Screenshot says one thing and you say another? Am I missing something? Either you have DDOS protection or you don't.
@Artie, Save some for me. Don't eat the whole thing.
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-21-2013, 08:14 PM |
| We never advertised any DDoS protection. Our support operator Hannah simply said they had 'protection'. Did we say we had 3gbps protection? 100mpbs protection? 1gbps protection? No. We have the basic protection that just about every properly configured server should have.
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| Posted by John - 24HL, 02-21-2013, 08:16 PM |
| So what about DDoS migration?
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| Posted by SeriesN, 02-21-2013, 08:19 PM |
| I see too many conflicting statement from you and your team. While we at it, you seem to have some issue with refunding your clients (All of your reviews reflects that). Also since when advertising on particular forums is against your TOS?
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-21-2013, 08:20 PM |
| Why's everyone trying to put the blame on US?
The screenshot that you've took was on the EXACT DAY of the DDoS Attack. Right after the datacenter null routed his IP.
If it was a small attack, maybe that wouldn't have been a problem. But you experienced a LARGE attack, on a large scale that greatly affected the entire server and caused downtime for everybody. Do you expect anything less from hackforum members?...
I never said it was, but I did say
-> Hosting hacking related content is against our ToS
-> He hosted hacking SOFTWARE on our ToS
-> He encouraged and ALLOWED the hosting of BOTNETS on our servers
-> He hosted a file sharing website
-> He had a WHMCS License and WHMCS Licenses are valued @ $7.20 as per our ToS
-> He had a Dedicated IP and Dedicated IPs aren't eligible for refunds
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| Posted by John - 24HL, 02-21-2013, 08:21 PM |
| Yeah, SeriesN is right. When advertising on particular forums is against your TOS?
Also, I wasn't hosting any Botnets and it even said on my ToS. You could have just suspended the hacking community that I was hosting instead of suspending my whole account which makes me loose customers. I told you that the hacking community was for testing and experimenting and it wasn't illegal. If it was illegal, I wouldn't be hosting it on a US server. Also, you suspended the file hosting client that I had without notice.
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| Posted by SeriesN, 02-21-2013, 08:21 PM |
| Why didn't you tell him that you DO NOT HAVE DDOS protection?
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-21-2013, 08:26 PM |
| It wouldn't have mattered. Hannah accidentally told him that AFTER THE DATACENTER NULLROUTED HIS IP AND AFTER OUR SERVER WAS ATTACKED.
Shortly after Hannah told him of the 'protection', his account was terminated.
This will not be taken lightly and I can assure you that I'm not letting this go unpunished.
The hacking tools and the hacking community was hosted under a subdomain of your main domain name that you signed up with. Enough said.
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| Posted by ArtieT, 02-21-2013, 08:27 PM |
| See here SeriesN:
Talk about contradictions.
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| Posted by SeriesN, 02-21-2013, 08:29 PM |
| Not making mistakes, aren't those free addon that you are charging him for right now?
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-21-2013, 08:31 PM |
| Why is everyone trying to sabotage this thread.
He was accidentally told by one of our support operators that we had protection AFTER he was attacked by a large DDoS attack. Shortly after that ticket response, his account was terminated. I manage the sales and I've never advertised that on any of our threads nor our main website.
It's clear that this thread is just full of lies to make his side look better; He came onto our Live Chat and said "This is John and I hope you lose money"
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| Posted by SurrealScripts, 02-21-2013, 08:33 PM |
| So he was DDoS'd, the datacenter null-routed his IP and when he asked for a refund you make up this stuff about him hosting illegal software?
Why would you terminate his account before letting him receive data from it?
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| Posted by SurrealScripts, 02-21-2013, 08:35 PM |
| Good on him. You terminated his account. He didn't have full control of what was put on there. You should leave this business if you don't expect resellers will occasionally pickup customers who will use nulled/illegal software.
Do you think your DC would delete your OS if your customers, customer had nulled software, a botnet or whatever it may be? No.
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| Posted by ArtieT, 02-21-2013, 08:36 PM |
| You know, it seems you are accusing everyone under the sun but yourself. So far he proved his claim that you said you (sorry, your agent) have DDoS protection. Would you like to share your proof now?
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-21-2013, 08:36 PM |
| He WAS hosting illegal software. Before we terminated his account our staff took some screenshots of evidence. Anyone who wishes to see proof may message me.
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| Posted by John - 24HL, 02-21-2013, 08:43 PM |
| I wasn't hosting illegal things and you could have just simply asked me to remove the content instead of terminating my account like a professional hosting would do
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-21-2013, 08:44 PM |
| I've attached two screenshots.
The first one is showing proof of his domain (xtreme-host.org)
and the second one is showing a screenshot of his hacking community subdomain.
Our terms of service states we reserve the right to terminate any website(s) immediately without notification.
Attached Thumbnails
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| Posted by SurrealScripts, 02-21-2013, 08:44 PM |
| Sure thing, feel free to use the PM feature in WHT. If it's on HIS account then maybe I'll believe it. Do the screenshots have timestamps?
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| Posted by SurrealScripts, 02-21-2013, 08:46 PM |
| and how do you know that he doesn't set up customers on sub domains? I thought his IP was null routed? How are you viewing the site?
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-21-2013, 08:49 PM |
| If he did that, then he did that with knowledge that he was hosting a hacking community. Thanks for helping me prove my point.
He came on Live Chat near the beginning of his signup and I saw that he took a look at our ToS. Our ToS strictly prohibits the hosting of illegal content/hacking content.
He intentionally abused our policies and was subject to immediate termination.
He had a dedicated IP on xtreme-host.org which WAS nullrouted. His other sites were on our server's main shared IP that WAS NOT null routed because they weren't targeted.
Before we terminated this account, I ordered our staff to screenshot evidence because I knew this thread would come up (Smart, huh?)
Edit: Yes, the screenshots do have timestamps. Please see the bottom of my desktop.
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| Posted by John - 24HL, 02-21-2013, 08:51 PM |
| Yeah how did you access the website? Hannah said he IP will be null routed for 36 hours.
Pic: http://imgur.com/Rxj0fZ7.png
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-21-2013, 08:53 PM |
| You must have a lack of hosting knowledge.
The screenshot I took was of a subdomain, not a directory. It didn't share the dedicated IP you had which was nullrouted.
It was using our server's shared IP address that was functioning and not nullrouted because that was not the IP address that was attacked.
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| Posted by Server Management, 02-21-2013, 09:00 PM |
| Not wanting to fuel the fire here but who actually took the screen shots
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-21-2013, 09:03 PM |
| Our VP Customer Relations and myself who were the only members of our management team online at the time.
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| Posted by blueraindesigns, 02-21-2013, 09:10 PM |
| Wow. I'm kind of shocked to see people jumping all over a host for shutting down a hacker's sites (which are clearly not allowed) which drew ddos attacks to the server.
Jonathon's staff may not have handled things as well, not knowing everything as well as they should, but the bottom line is hacking sites attracted the attack. Greenhost's TOS is very specific in saying that;
Thefollowing are not allowed to be hosted on GreenValueHost servers;
-snip the list of items to the relevant item-
Hacking community websites or any website promoting the act of hacking or phishing
We reserve the right to IMMEDIATELY TERMINATE ANY website that is hosting any of the above content WITHOUT notification and WITHOUT any backups provided.
Dude hosted sites in direct violation of the terms, simple as that.
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-21-2013, 09:12 PM |
| I'm not done yet. Here are a few more screenshots of evidence that supports my case.
If anymore evidence is needed please let me know.
Edit: So the OP abandoned this thread, does anybody else want to throw something at us?
Attached Thumbnails
Last edited by GreenValueHostGM; 02-21-2013 at 09:16 PM.
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| Posted by John - 24HL, 02-21-2013, 09:19 PM |
| If you actually saw the date posted and last date edited, it shows that the thread was about 2 months ago.
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-21-2013, 09:23 PM |
| That's not the point of the screenshots. The point of the screenshots was the prove that you're actively involved in hacking community forums.
Point successfully proven.
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| Posted by YDomer, 02-21-2013, 10:16 PM |
| I kind of agree with a prior assessment made by someone else. Clearly the ToS states that this kind of thing is not allowed, they also state immediate account termination. Where is the issue here?
Further more it may not be OP's fault for getting DDoS'd (it probably is but benefit of the doubt applies, hosting hacking sites like this attract DDoS like mad) but in the end it affects the network and possibly other clients. If you need DDoS protection, move to a provider that specifically says they provide mitigation.
The only part I kind of think was bad here on the hosts part was the "protection" that was not clarified. Sure there was no guarantee or anything specifically stated, but people make assumptions, being as specific and open as possible about what you can and cannot provide is very important, leave no room for assumptions.
The idea that shutting down or removing the specific site/content is dumb. OP knew what he was doing, and if he was a "professional customer" he would have read the ToS and stuck to the terms therein.
TL;DR OP seems upset that he was shutdown even though it clearly states in ToS that this type of thing is not allowed. The part about immediate termination is even bolded. What more do you people want? A flashing banner with dancing penguins around it?
Sheesh. Read things before jumping on the hosting company.
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| Posted by SarahA, 02-21-2013, 10:20 PM |
| Yes hacking is fine for a termination, however you did just lie here, you said your member of staff took the screen shot evidence and now they are to look at your desktop, aka meaning YOU took the screen shots.
Why lie?
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-21-2013, 10:27 PM |
| I said a member of our staff AND myself took the screenshots. The member of the staff was our VP of Customer Relations, or Customer Service Manager - John.
I messaged John and he wasn't available at the time so I couldn't post his screenshots so I just posted mine...
That's not lying.
He has an account on WHT too I believe, his username is John K if you want to message him. Or you can contact him directly at johnk@greenvaluehost.com
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| Posted by SarahA, 02-21-2013, 10:31 PM |
| Alright no worry's, it's cool you explained.
Anyway If this happened to most in this thread - it would be an automatic termination. Unless you condone hacking content.
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| Posted by John - 24HL, 02-21-2013, 10:33 PM |
| I don't think waiting for hours is even close to 20 minutes time.
Pic: http://i.imgur.com/dMILZK3.png
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-21-2013, 10:35 PM |
| Management inquires, such as the one displayed in your screenshot, is NOT handled by our technical support staff.
Your technical support tickets were responded to in very adequate time.
Ask around; does any host out there let their technical support staff handle abuse/management?
We got you on everything else, now you're just trying to pick up the pieces and attack us on whatever you can possible
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| Posted by John - 24HL, 02-21-2013, 10:37 PM |
| Other hosts actually notifies me when they suspended an account and specify which host is 2x the wait
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| Posted by YDomer, 02-21-2013, 10:40 PM |
| And perhaps other customers stick to what are very clear ToS regarding hacking communities... (BTW: the argument for "educational" hacking forums is kind of getting old).
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-21-2013, 10:45 PM |
| No, actually - They would if was minor like DMCA and we would too, but this is something severe and we have stated in our terms of service that you agreed to that we reserve the right to terminate accounts immediately.
You live in the US, correct?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro...l_Commerce_Act
The Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act is a law passed by the United States Congress in 2000 that states that if you electronically sign an agreement such as ticking the "I agree to the Terms of Service" box at signup, it would be the same as you signing a legal document in real life.
I don't really want to get into which hosts do what, you'll see some when you search around some ToS documents.
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| Posted by blueraindesigns, 02-21-2013, 10:46 PM |
| Really, this is a lesson in getting hosting which allows whatever it is you're planning on hosting. It would certainly save everyone, client and host, a lot of time and frustration...
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| Posted by John - 24HL, 02-21-2013, 10:59 PM |
| You said that there's no real offshore servers. Then please tell me why hackforums.net hasn't been shut down after more than 3 years? You want to know why? Because everything they're doing is all legal like the forums I was hosting
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-21-2013, 11:02 PM |
| No, stop lying. Seriously.
I never said there's no real offshore servers. I spoke with you on chat and I said that WE (GreenValueHost) don't USE offshore servers.
hackforums is considered offshore because their servers are located in Costa Rica.
Edit: Actually, we can't find out where their servers are located because they're using CloudFlare.
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| Posted by blueraindesigns, 02-21-2013, 11:02 PM |
| Hackforums.net is hosted out of Costa Rica... Like I was just saying, getting hosting that allows what you want to host is the solution.
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| Posted by John - 24HL, 02-21-2013, 11:03 PM |
| No I spoke with you and I'm not lying. You said offshore isn't real and it can't avoid the law.
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-21-2013, 11:07 PM |
| No I didn't. Would you like me to post our Live Chat log screenshots onto this thread? I can do it with just a few clicks if you'd like.
I said that YOU can't avoid the law as long as you're hosted with US because we're a company based in the United States and YOU are a US Citizen.
What does offshore servers have to do with this thread..? I mean seriously..
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| Posted by John - 24HL, 02-21-2013, 11:09 PM |
| You were talking about having a offshore server isn't real and doesn't avoid the law. And hackforums has to do with this thread because it's been 3+ years and hackforums still hasn't shut down and all of their content are legal. The forums I was hosting is practically the same as hackforums, so it's perfectly legal.
And yes, please post FULL chat log of the chat we had about offshore servers
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| Posted by NHRoel, 02-21-2013, 11:10 PM |
| Edit: Never mind. Read it wrong..Back to business.
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| Posted by ArtieT, 02-21-2013, 11:10 PM |
| You guys do realize HackForums is hosted out of LimeStoneNetworks right?
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-21-2013, 11:12 PM |
| My name is Jonathan Nguyen.
His name is John Kranz.
Two different names here, buddy.
I don't spend time looking for information about hacking community forums because I'm a good person and I don't want to associate myself with bad people.
I don't even want to hear about them. What does the location of hackforum servers have to do with this thread? If there's nothing more to say about the main discussion, let's just end this thread before we all get infracted.
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| Posted by John - 24HL, 02-21-2013, 11:13 PM |
| Why aren't you posting the chat logs? Trying to hide something?
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-21-2013, 11:15 PM |
| I'd post screenshots instead, but it's faster this way. If anybody would like screenshots please ask. Here you go:
John has joined.
Jonathan N has joined.
Jonathan N
5:35 PM
Hi John
John
5:35 PM
Hello, my website and my clients seems to be down
Jonathan N
5:35 PM
Please hold on while I investigate this for you.
Jonathan N
5:37 PM
The server that your websites are on is currently undergoing a DDoS attack. Our system administrators are working to promptly mitigate this attack and restore access to the server as soon as possible. Meanwhile, your patience is appreciated in this matter.
John
5:38 PM
Will I be credited for the downtimes?
Jonathan N
5:38 PM
Unfortunately not, DDoS attacks are out of our control and they are not eligible for credit as per our Terms of Service. This is the same at every other host.
John
5:39 PM
Ah
Do you match costs with other competitors
Jonathan N
5:40 PM
We certainly can, however they must be a legitimate competitor. That means if they're a fly-by-night, we won't price match them.
I'm almost particular that we have the most reasonable costs though.
John
5:41 PM
I found this reseller hosting in WebHostingTalk
Jonathan N
5:41 PM
May I please see the link?
John
5:41 PM
http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1239409
John
5:42 PM
Their Enterprise Plan
Yeah but again the free WHMCS, IP, comes into play
Jonathan N
5:42 PM
Sure thing, we can price match that. SolaDrive is a legitimate competitor. However, you'll have to pay for the WHMCS and Dedicated IP.
John
5:42 PM
Yup that's true
Jonathan N
5:43 PM
Also, there's something to note about SolaDrive. They use SATA drives and we use SAS drives.
We don't try to cut corners to make things fit.
John
5:43 PM
The bandwidth your providing is great, but what I dislike are how much disk space you provide
Jonathan N
5:44 PM
The drives that we use are 3x more expensive then the drives they use and they're faster too, so unfortunately we don't advertise it publicly
However if you'd like I'll be happy to price match them and give you the same disk space/allocations that they offer you as long as you're willing to pay extra for the WHMCS License and Dedicated IP.
John
5:45 PM
Nevermind then
Jonathan N
5:46 PM
And one more thing about SolaDrive - They state that they don't allow you to oversell. So if you buy their lowest plan with 25GB Disk Space, you won't have very many clients.
John
5:47 PM
That's true. Do you happen to have any Offshore servers?
Jonathan N
5:47 PM
No, unfortunately not. We're a US company and we don't plan on offering anything to violate our country's laws.
John
5:48 PM
I really suggest getting White-labeled nameservers
It's like the "new" trend now
Jonathan N
5:48 PM
We do offer white labeled nameservers...
You can use these IPs: Nameserver 1 IP: 67.228.177.202
Nameserver 2 IP: 174.37.60.8
Nameserver 3 IP: 216.18.215.66
Nameserver 4 IP: 216.18.215.67
Jonathan N
5:49 PM
To create ns1.xtreme-host.org ns2.xtreme-host.org ns3.xtreme-host.org and ns4.xtreme-host.org
It would be the same as using our nameservers.
John
5:49 PM
Weird, because someone found out that I was using GreenVallueHost
Jonathan N
5:50 PM
I don't know how that could have happened.
Jonathan N
5:51 PM
I apologize.
John
5:51 PM
No problem. The unlimited disk space and bandwidth are luring me in, but I know that they're a fly by night host
John
5:52 PM
Like these host: http://vmbox.co/webhosting.html
Jonathan N
5:52 PM
That's a fly-by-night. For sure.
John
5:53 PM
But they have been up for more than a year
John
5:54 PM
Your OpenVZ is very costly compared to BudgetVM: http://budgetvm.com/linux-vps.php
Jonathan N
5:54 PM
That's because they've been able to get the money in from luring people that don't know any better, and that's the real truth of it. When I created this company, I wanted it to be a place where people could get true quality hosting. That's why we offer so many features. That's why our servers are fast. And that's why we don't get corners.
Jonathan N
5:56 PM
They probably have access to more resources than we do.
John
5:56 PM
If only you guys had offshore servers, it'd be perfect.
Jonathan N
5:57 PM
If you're looking for a reliable host that offers feature packed reseller hosting on offshore servers to host illegal content, that's not possible. It doesn't exist.
John
5:58 PM
Ah okay, thanks for the tips. Is the GVH-OVI I VPS capable of handling cPanel?
Jonathan N
5:58 PM
Yes of course. All of our servers are.
Jonathan N
5:59 PM
We offer a discounted price on cPanel VPS Optimized Licenses - Only $12.00/month.
John
5:59 PM
BudgetVM cpanel prices $11, but $1 doesn't make a diifference
Jonathan N
6:00 PM
One thing that we offer that BudgetVM doesn't is personalized support.
I personally like to connect with my clients, get to know them, and take the time to evaluate every issue.
Jonathan N
6:01 PM
There has not been one ticket in our helpdesk that I haven't saw. I go through them all and if I see something that isn't perfect, I'll fix it.
John
6:01 PM
It sounds reassuring. Do you plan on keeping up GVH for years?
John
6:02 PM
Long term hosting company?
Jonathan N
6:02 PM
Yes I do.
It's my passion.
John
6:02 PM
How much would extra GB disk space cost for your OpenVZ?
Jonathan N
6:03 PM
We don't offer extra disk space until you've gone up to our highest plan. After that, the price can be discussed.
Don't worry, it's nothing unreasonable.
John
6:04 PM
When will your Xen VPS Hosting page be up?
Jonathan N
6:04 PM
Probably next week.
Our Xen VPS Hosting isn't cheap though. It's about 2x the cost of our OpenVZ.
John
6:05 PM
Does the TOS also apply to the VPS?
Jonathan N
6:05 PM
Yes.
John
6:06 PM
Okay, thanks for answering my questions
Jonathan N
6:06 PM
You're welcome.
John
6:06 PM
There should be an exit button on the chat
So I don't annoy you that I might type someting
Jonathan N
6:07 PM
We don't have control over our chat interface, it's all Zopim.
John
6:07 PM
Well thanks. Good bye
Jonathan N
6:07 PM
Have a nice day.
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| Posted by zomgmike, 02-21-2013, 11:24 PM |
| Those are some pretty negative sales tactics. :-(
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-21-2013, 11:28 PM |
| That would be an opinion.
I know this isn't and shouldn't be an excuse however; This chat was done in my personal time - I was tired and I was trying the best I can. I admit that my grammar wasn't maintained in the chat.
I have nothing against SolaDrive, I respect them and they're actually one of my favorite hosting companies and I'd recommend them anyday. I was just simply trying to explain the differences.
I do have something against fly-by-night hosts however, as do we all.
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| Posted by SarahA, 02-21-2013, 11:46 PM |
| I think he's more talking about you slandering webhosts for sales.
Just because you have registered your hosting as an LLC or whatever does not stop you from being a "fly-by-night" host.
When you check out your Reseller hosting and compare it with "fly-by-night" hosts once your free WHMCS License you're pretty much getting $2-$5 for hosting yourself, now that to me isn't a business that can survive long in this industry. And since you arn't a WHMCS Reseller you are at minimum paying $10/month for Licenses from one of the resellers which is fine since most people do that, however that is pretty bad numbers when you come to think about it.
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-21-2013, 11:51 PM |
| Again, it was on my own personal time, i was tired and I was trying to get by the night. I was trying to make helpful comparisons and it apparently came out to something else in everybody else's eyes. In that case, I apologize. But I'm human, and these things happen to us all.
Don't deny me of citizenship in the human race. C'mon now.
And like us all, I need to get some rest. Have a good night everyone
I'll come back to check up on this thread sometime in the morning although there's nothing else really to say/prove here..
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| Posted by John - 24HL, 02-21-2013, 11:55 PM |
| Here: If you're looking for a reliable host that offers feature packed reseller hosting on offshore servers to host illegal content, that's not possible. It doesn't exist.
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-22-2013, 12:01 AM |
| Before I hit the hay I'll answer this
That's my own personal opinion, you can choose to believe it or not to believe it, take it or not take it. Basically any reliable host would abide by their countries laws and I assume that most countries will have laws similar to those of the United States.
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| Posted by woktron, 02-22-2013, 09:40 AM |
| http://www.automotivedigitalmarketin...ource=activity
food for thought?
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-22-2013, 12:28 PM |
| Here's some food for thought:
Do you use Verion Wireless?
Verizon Fios?
AT&T?
Comcast Cable?
Direct TV?
Dish network?
Bounty paper towels?
Storebought medicine brands?
Those are all companies that "bash" other competitors by your definition.
Do you really think they really have a burning hate for each other? No. It's competition.
Is marketing/sales tactics in the hosting industry any different? Not really.
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| Posted by woktron, 02-22-2013, 12:55 PM |
| No it isn't. Which reiterates my point. Focus on your own strengths as a business and never ever talk crap about any competitor while communicating with a client. that, is marketing 101 for ya, like it or not.
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| Posted by TravisT-[SSS], 02-22-2013, 01:06 PM |
| I wish politics would stop bashing each other and actually talk about them and what they want to do ect.. and how they will be better then the others.
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-22-2013, 01:09 PM |
| I was honestly trying to compare and contrast but as I said earlier, it was during my own personal time and I was tired.
It happens to us all; Can you think of a time when you've performed at your best while you're at home, tired, about to call it a day but yet you force yourself to do something to help someone else? No.
Again, I apologize. Thanks for the tips
This is really off topic and the main focus of this thread has long been settled because the OP basically has no arguments left.
Why don't we start a new thread instead of continuing this one and risk being infracted?
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| Posted by techjr, 02-22-2013, 01:28 PM |
| I agree. And if anyone wants to comment on how he runs his business maybe you can give him advice via PM?
At-least zomgMike had the decency to hide his sig while saying it in his latest post.
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| Posted by woktron, 02-22-2013, 02:25 PM |
| Gotcha. It is safe to say we've all had our share of moments where things could've been handled better.
No need to do that on my behalf. I've said what I needed to say.
Which was precisely my point. Try and uphold a particular set of standards. Don't focus on mere monetary gains.
being a simple newbie here, I've just managed to find the "hide signature" button. I hope that satisfies your concerns?
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| Posted by GetInclined, 02-22-2013, 03:16 PM |
| I'm not going to bash anyone in this thread as it's not the type of person I am, however I would like to just post one thing. If you were tired, I honestly wouldn't have taken the chat and let them submit a ticket as you would have performed better in the morning once you would have woken up, sure you might have lost the client, but it would have saved all of the bad stuff that's happening now. But it's just my personal opinion, I'm not trying to tell you how to run your company .
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-22-2013, 04:14 PM |
| Well actually that chat took place either the night before or two nights before his termination and as he said, he was a client for about a week.
I've learned a lot from this experience, and one thing that's going to change is that we're going to implement a policy that hackforum members are not allowed to order our services. Hopefully this thread will serve as a reminder and a lesson for all hosts (I know it has for us) that you always want to fraud check and most importantly, backround check your clients before accepting their order.
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| Posted by ~Lee~, 02-22-2013, 04:35 PM |
| You are going to prevent members of hackforums from using your service? That's mature. Being a member of a forum does not mean you are a bad person and should go to hell.
I know many providers who are members simply to watch what is going on, does that mean you will see a user with the business name as a username? No.
Chances are you are already hosting clients who are members there aside from this one. So if you find out they are and are doing nothing wrong, what are you going to do? Show them the door?
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-22-2013, 04:43 PM |
| That's like asking the US not to restrict trade against Iran because there's good people living in that country; well of course there is, but the government of those countries don't encourage good ethics and behavior, just like the administration of hackforums doesn't either.
I probably wouldn't show them the door until I have done thorough investigation enough to conclude that they are participating in DDoS activities/hacking-related activities and are a danger to our network
Travis from SSS actually came up with the idea and although I haven't implemented it yet and he probably hasn't either, I'm going to have a discussion with the rest of our management team about it and it's probably safe to say that it would prevent a lot of problems in the future from happening.
There's too many hackforum related issues happening to hosts on WHT lately; even the guys at SecureDragon had one of these ridiculous incidents
Last edited by GreenValueHostGM; 02-22-2013 at 04:48 PM.
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| Posted by ~Lee~, 02-22-2013, 05:10 PM |
| As comparisons go that gets #1 for being the most ridiculous.
So you are going to vet every single client as a potential threat until proven otherwise.
That's nothing new, they are extremely frequent, but let's not forget that many low end providers are targets of other providers, that is common these days due to the competition and $1 margins.
Being the target of a DDoS does not mean hackforums or a member of it are responsible, carrying out a DoS or DDoS is very easy and therefore you do not need an affiliation to HF or anyone else to be upset or just bored to then vent at a provider.
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| Posted by Martin-D, 02-22-2013, 05:29 PM |
| People. Please, learn the difference between 'mitigation' and 'migration'.
Also, PR epic fail.
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-22-2013, 05:40 PM |
| In all due respect, that's like asking if you view every client as innocent without looking at fraud checks at their initial signup.
In the next few days, our management team is going to go looking through for some suspicious activity and we're going to send out a notice to all of our clients tonight notifying them that we will not tolerate any illegal/hacking content. That way, they will know beforehand to delete anything that's against our ToS before we suspend their account when we find it.
I'm well aware of that however that doesn't change the fact that DDoS attacks can be prevented from withdrawing from actions such as posting advertisements in hacking communities.
I want GVH to be a safe place for everyone and I'm going to do everything in my ability to make sure that it always is.
If anybody has any suggestions, concerns or comments, please do not hesitate to contact one of our management team members directly, including myself. I have included our contact information below.
Lance Jessurun - CEO
lance@greenvaluehost.com
WHT Username: Lance J
Jonathan Nguyen - COO
jonathan@greenvaluehost.com
WHT Username: GVH-Jon
John Kranz - VP Customer Relations
johnk@greenvaluehost.com
WHT Username: John K
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| Posted by ~Lee~, 02-22-2013, 06:08 PM |
| I don't disagree, but you seem to always be on the back foot with everything, waiting for the issue to arise before realizing it could be an issue then dealing with it.
As already said, this has been an epic PR fail (again)
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-22-2013, 06:12 PM |
| As with other companies such as your own, we improve day by day and every situation is a new lesson and a new push for added improvement.
We can't cover every single possible flaw there could be; that's not possible. This isn't only us, this is with other companies as well.
By your definition, WHMCS is guilty of 'being on the back foot of everything' too.
They don't spend time trying to find every single type of flaw and patching them all up, they do it when something is brought to their attention and every new release, every new patch comes an improvement.
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| Posted by Martin-D, 02-22-2013, 06:16 PM |
| Speak for yourself.
We actively look for issues and sort them before it impacts customers. Most sane business owners do.
You don't dig a hole, bury the pipeline, cover it and THEN look for issues.
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-22-2013, 06:27 PM |
| We all share a common 'hole' in our pipes so to speak. And it can't be repaired. Every single one of us has clients that could potentially attract a DDoS attack one way or another. (Not too long ago, a candy store website on our server was DDoS attacked. 100% serious here folks)
I've already publicly told everyone what we are planning to do about it to make it better but there's absolutely no way you can totally avoid the chances of attacks unless of course, you buy expensive DDoS protection.
With that said, I don't think it's fair to criticize us for attempting to find new ways of patching up this inevitable 'hole' in the pipe.
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| Posted by Martin-D, 02-22-2013, 06:35 PM |
| No, you are saying you don't actively look for issues or problems but instead, prefer to wait for them to happen before you patch up the mess. You then have the gall to tar all providers with the same brush.
Perhaps you should take a step back and think about what you're saying and reflect a little. There are hosts on here who have been around a lot longer than you and have far less negative reviews. You are clearly doing something wrong and I am pretty sure this policy of closing the gate after the horse has bolted is playing a huge part. Do not defend your actions by saying 'everyone' does it - most do not.
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-22-2013, 06:45 PM |
| Please don't put words in my mouth.
I said that we can't fix up every single flaw there is, and flaws in my eyes could be as simple as fraudulent clients being able to bypass MaxMind's fraud system or even past abusive clients being able to sign up at a Starbucks cofee shop using their free WiFi with a different IP address and email address.
Do your techs come to the office and have a mindset of "Okay, today we're going to spend all day looking for every single possible flaw in the world that could affect our servers" No.
We've been trying to compete on quality AND low price, and quite frankly we've done a good job of offering reseller hosting with whmcs & a free dedicated IP for the price that no other host has been offering. That's what attracted the abuses and abusive clients. It's time now that I sit down and rethink that marketing strategy.
Back to my other post about improvement. We all improve over time and experiences like this is what helps push further improvement.
I don't mind constructive criticism, but I do mind the fact that people are trying to find an Achilles heel by attacking us on points that every web host shares (such as the common 'hole in the pipe' described above) and human characteristics.
Furthermore, this policy of closing the gate on hackforum members hasn't even been implemented. I said that we'd be putting it under consideration since it's been recommended by a fellow host and a good friend.
Last edited by GreenValueHostGM; 02-22-2013 at 06:49 PM.
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| Posted by Martin-D, 02-22-2013, 06:52 PM |
| I didn't, it was your own words.
[QUOTE=GVH-Jon;8571543
Do your techs come to the office and have a mindset of "Okay, today we're going to spend all day looking for every single possible flaw in the world that could affect our servers" No.
[/quote]
Yes actually lol. That's what a tech is there for. You keep the systems running well so that customers don't have to contact you with problems.
You keep coming up with excuses. I think that says it all.
Good luck.
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| Posted by ~Lee~, 02-22-2013, 06:53 PM |
| You see that is where you fall down often.
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-22-2013, 06:55 PM |
| That isn't the right mindset. The right mindset should be "We're going to spend the entire day delivering the best experience possible to our clients and helping them with whatever they need help with."
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| Posted by Martin-D, 02-22-2013, 06:56 PM |
| Seriously. Did you just post that?
What about help with refunds?
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| Posted by Server Management, 02-22-2013, 06:58 PM |
| Yup, Just a bog standard "ping" attack coming from someone's home network could be classed as a DoS although the likes of CSF/IPTables will likely block it, Still its an attack however simple
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-22-2013, 07:00 PM |
| Yes, I did say that. I also did say that we're going to put it under consideration and the policy hasn't YET been implemented
Key Word: Yet
Refund requests are submitted very, very rarely and I hardly ever see them. However when there is one, we take care of it promptly and refund the client.
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| Posted by Martin-D, 02-22-2013, 07:06 PM |
| Pretty sure the majority of your reviews on here have said otherwise.
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-22-2013, 07:10 PM |
| The two other reviews weren't supposed to get refunds because of ToS violation. They received one because I decided to bring out the kind, loving and passionate soul in me.
When a client violates your ToS and requests a refund and you state in your ToS that refunds aren't given if there is a violation, then you aren't required to provide one. However, hosts still do because they're trying to be nice against their better judgement.
Please have a look @ our RateLobby reviews: http://ratelobby.com/review/256/greenvaluehost
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| Posted by ~Lee~, 02-22-2013, 07:40 PM |
| Ratelobby? I never trust anything that can be faked so easily.
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 02-22-2013, 07:47 PM |
| They're legitimate reviews. We have a ratelobby button on every page of our site so our clients can post reviews whenever they want with just a few clicks.
You can choose to believe them or not to believe them, but they truly are genuine, happy clients.
Many of the big hosts in WHT use RateLobby such as EZPZHosting and StableHost, so I thought we would too. Their costs are reasonable, and imho it's better than having reviews on WebHostingStuff where EIG ads are plastered all over the screen.
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| Posted by ~Lee~, 02-22-2013, 07:48 PM |
| I never said I did not believe them but it's just another easy to fake review site I advise ppl to use caution when using it, and that is not directed at you
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| Posted by AcuNett, 03-02-2013, 09:59 AM |
| This thread is all over the place. But concerning the original issue, it's typically the datacenter who makes the decision to nullroute a server. Server owners are given the option to remove the content or face termination/nullroute within a particular period of time. DDoS attacks in most datacenters typically warrant immediate action from the DC without advanced notice to the client. The server owner has his hands tied in these situations.
I'd say they made a mistake in terminating the accounts without access to data but they may have been worried about the legality of storing possibly illegal content on their servers.
The major issue here as I see it is the termination of the entire Reseller Account. Reseller's expect a particular level of protection from that type of overall suspension. Given the circumstances and what they perceived as blatant violations of the ToS, most hosts would have taken a similar action.
Just my two cents.
Also there seems to be a misperception that DDoS filtering devices that simply prevent and stop all DDoS attacks. That's not the case. Most devices will mitigate DDoS traffic at best. The best way to prevent DDoS attacks is to do your best not to attract them. If you have a client who attracts a DDoS not once, but twice, you are under no obligation to keep hosting them on your server much less the network. If the server you are hosted on is DDoSed, your sites are not likely to function anyway.
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| Posted by toshost, 03-02-2013, 10:51 AM |
| when a big ddos attack on a server then nobody have do something. some month ago goddy down due to reason of large Ddos attack.
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| Posted by VMBox, 08-06-2013, 07:01 AM |
| That's a bit rude considering we've been around longer than you.
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| Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 08-06-2013, 10:21 AM |
| I was caught up in the moment trying to explain the essence of a fly by night, and I wrongly judged by the look of your website previously and I very much apologize.
This conversation occurred about 6 months ago and back then I was a little bit experienced on a lot of things, and I've made a lot of mistakes but I realize now that what I said in the past was wrong and I've learned from the mistakes. Fly by nights shouldn't be judged by their cover and I'm very sincerely sorry about my past words; I take them back and I hope that you can accept my apology and move on from this.
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