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DDOS Victims
| Posted by JSCL, 12-28-2007, 08:37 PM |
| Hello,
I'm noticing lots more hosting companies/services getting DDOSd on their servers so it appears of downtime. Has anybody else spotted or been the victim of this??
Kindest Regards
Jason S
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| Posted by nibb, 12-28-2007, 08:56 PM |
| Well its like the Virus Mafia. If there arent virus outhere the Antivirus software companies would go broke. Some people claim Antivirus firms are the ones that pay to release new viruses since the programmers are never catched.
This would not be a wonder if the same companies that provide DDOS defense systems are attacking hosting companies so they buy the products or the solution.
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| Posted by WG47, 12-28-2007, 09:34 PM |
| or rivals ddosing rivals to mess up their uptime stats etc.
The owner of the Rizon irc network was recently caught ddosing rival irc networks as well.
Some say these are conspiracy theories, but the evidence is there.
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| Posted by Noam, 12-29-2007, 01:35 PM |
| From my personal experience with the type of people who are involved with DDoSing on a large scale, and with the type of people who are basing their business on fighting such things, this is a very stupid statement to make.
In general, to make such allegations on a public forum without personal experience in the matter, not to speak of a shred of evidence is not advised.
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| Posted by nibb, 12-29-2007, 01:59 PM |
| Yes of course it is just like every post or allegation that touches someone in his pocket. Dont be ridiculous. Im not saying that every company that sells DDOS protection does this, im sure 95% dont. But if you investigate a little you will see that there was evidence in the past of Antivirus companies providing development for Viruses. This is nothing new. We sell the antidote to cure the disease we spread. Its all about money. Every business executive can tell you this, without Virus, Antivirus software will be out of business. Same for DDOS. And if if the enemy doesn't exist, lets create one. This an old concept and companies where discovered to do this several times in the past so don't be so shocked about it.
Just as DDOS solutions started to appear everywhere, DDOS attacks came behind them not the other way around. Some years ago DDOS where something really weard, and you if you had one that was because someone had you on the target, today you have to be lucky not get a DDOS from time to time on particular servers. Everything is to get more money of a particular market, in this case Hosting. Antivirus solutions, Antispam solutions, DDOS solutions, etc.
Welcome to the real world !!!
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| Posted by Paul-M, 12-29-2007, 02:04 PM |
| Speaking of DDoS'ing... Why do some go after the DNS root servers? What do they think will come of it?
Anyway, it really wouldn't be a surprise that the larger companies create a demand for their supply...
You have to admit, it would be a good business plan if you don't get caught
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| Posted by nibb, 12-29-2007, 02:09 PM |
| Because like they said before attacking the DNS puts downtime on the services impacting on the reports of uptime and hosting service.
If you target 1 server you take that server with all sites down but targeting the DNS puts down the whole business, all sites using those DNS regardless of the server in which they are in. Its easier then to target every single server. Thats why also why you found so many new services like:
"Hardened DNS appliance preventing
DNS DoS attacks from $495 per year"
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| Posted by jon-f, 12-29-2007, 02:17 PM |
| The only people who could even solicit such protection are proxying services, there are only 3 to my knowledge and I couldnt imagine them doing that.
The ddosers NOT the ddos protection companies are in positions to make more money via extortion, competition, etc.
The only "ddos protection racket" I had heard of is with some russian sites being contacted by the attacker demanding money to stop the attacks. Ive never heard of ddos protection companies doing this.
And if you will look there is not that many ddos proxying services or hosters. Its a risky business kind of like life insurance. When a company offers 1-2gbits protection for example they are not counting on the site being ddosed all the time. If they was charging 2k for 2gbs protection then if the site got ddosed 2gbits worth for a week they would have done lost money.
When you give someone 2gbs protection its just like giving them a 2gbit port in times of attack. Now look up on the net what just a one gbit dedicated port prices. What the protection services are depending on is the attack being blocked within the first few days and teh attacker giving up. Or just the target being ddosed like that only a few times a month.
I just think that if this would have happened - ddos protection services attacking people and then soliciting protection it would have done been exposed. I dont think any company would risk doing this and the only ones who could viably do this are proxying services, there are only 3 to my knowledge - proxlexic, gigenet, and stopdos (not sure on this one) but they have a solid rep and would have nothing to gain from doing this.
You go to them, they don't come to you with ddos solutions. Now it has already been exposed that some anti-spam services are doing something similar by spamming their anti-spam services but never seen a situation of ddos services doing anything of the sort. Im pretty sure the ddos came way before the services did.
Last edited by jon-f; 12-29-2007 at 02:24 PM.
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| Posted by nibb, 12-29-2007, 02:40 PM |
| Its not like the the company asks you or offers you a service. Its logical to thing that if you are DDOSED you will look for a solution. They dont DDOS you and then send you an email with their solution. Thats to obvious. They just keep targeting random targets or pay companies in China or Russia to make attacks on important sites or hosts that could become clients.
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| Posted by Noam, 12-29-2007, 03:42 PM |
| Do you have anything to stand behind this statement? The oldest company that I know which offered a product against DDoS (and it wasn't even called that back then) was founded in 2000, and DDoS for all of its variants has been around many years before that.
More like a world where you are sure something is happening but have not been able to provide even a single case to base your posts on.
Just because "it would not be a wonder" and "really wouldn't be a surprise" or "its logical" and all the other baseless statements you can think of, it doesn't mean there are any legit companies in the known anti-DDoS field even coming close to doing this.
If you are asking about the real root servers, this infact has been a "doomsday" scenario in the past, but the ISPs which host the roots have evolved much since then, mostly by using the Anycast technology.
What was once 13 computers around the world providing the most important service on the Internet, are today over 200 different machines each hosted on a different network and geographical location, protected by technologies only transit providers can offer.
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| Posted by nibb, 12-29-2007, 03:53 PM |
| I have proofs, but you sure like to have them...
This is corporate private info, not be disclosed on a public forum. Make your investigations and get facts. Your like a little child that thinks everything is nice and beautifully. Im sure you believe everything that is on movies and read on newspapers as well. Media hypnotized. They believe everything they see and hear. Analise thinks don't just take things for granted. If I say something is not because i invented it, I know at least 1 company that has being involved in DDOS attacks, as for antivirus you Kapersky, investigate a little and you will see how they came to be a nobody company to a top antivirus software company.
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| Posted by Noam, 12-29-2007, 04:36 PM |
| Another high quality post filled with no information, just an attempt to ridicule me.
Stop using the Antivirus market as an example. It is unrelated.
I will do what you failed to do and bring an example from the anti-DDoS market, and I am not afraid to name names on a public forum.
CIT/Foonet. A provider which offered "anti-DDoS" services and was charged in DDoSing competitors.
If you haven't heard of them I am not sure you should be posting in a topic regarding corporate DDoS. If you have heard of them I hope you were under some misconception that it is "corporate private info" as they are the perfect example to prove the point you were trying to make. Have you heard of CIT/Foonet? if so why haven't you mentioned them?
To make my point clear, except for the criminals from Foonet, most of the people involved in the anti-DDoS field are experts at fighting DDoS, and by being an expert in fighting DDoS you grow a very strong distaste to the people doing the DDoS.
Ofcourse there is a connection between the existence of DDoS and the anti-DDoS providers, but I don't know a single provider that felt sad to hear some DDoSers went to jail about a month ago. So please stop with the libel.
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| Posted by jon-f, 12-29-2007, 05:25 PM |
| ddos came long before the ddos protected providers, for the longest time there wasnt much to be done about ddos. Also it seems most of the ddos protection providers didnt really start off until after 2000. Sites were being brought down years before that.
Its just a no win situation for protection providers to do such a thing and I am curious to see any instance where this ever happened.
And with foonet, They was just hosting botnets to my knowledge and was not actively involved in any attack just providing the means for crinimals. If anyone knows the specifics please reply but I dont think that was a situation as what the op is stating is happening.
people are going to ddos regardless, protection providers are among cyber crinimals worst enemies. Most ddos is simply for revenge, extortion, competition, etc and the target getting a protected provider is the last thing an attacker wants to see
Last edited by jon-f; 12-29-2007 at 05:31 PM.
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| Posted by WG47, 12-29-2007, 06:17 PM |
| cough* http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11...o_plea_guilty/ *cough*
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