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Anonymous reselling




Posted by Jonathan K., 07-08-2001, 09:07 AM
Hi everyone I'm just wondering how resellers keep their anonymity. I've been thinking of reselling for VO but when I did a tracert on 1 of their resellers, connections to Verio can be detected. Although VO states this in on their network page : Our Network Operations is managed out of Denver, Colorado. We lease space and use Bandwidth, Power and Connectivity from the new State of the Art Verio Network Operations Center (NOC). Please note that we are not a reseller for Verio, nor are we otherwise associated with Verio. We own, operate and manage all of our own hardware and equipment. Our hosting business is not associated with Verio’s Hosting Division I'm sure no reseller likes to be known as the middle man. Although VO does provide free nameservers to their resellers, isn't the point of those nameservers to allow the reseller to remain anonymous? Please correct me if I'm wrong

Posted by WebSnail.net, 07-08-2001, 09:12 AM
I think that answers your question quite nicely...

Posted by Jonathan K., 07-08-2001, 09:19 AM
What do you mean? Do you mean for us to tell our clients that? Will a tracert always reveal the proper source? In addition, what do you resellers do when a client asks if you're a reseller? I know this might be a 'tough' question but I don't like the idea of lying.

Posted by WebSnail.net, 07-08-2001, 09:34 AM
Sorry... wasn't trying to be obtuse.. Ok, they state that they are located within the Verio Datacentre using their bandwidth but are a wholly seperate entity with respect to their business. Now they "may" be lying but I have no proof of that and your tracert just shows it going through the same router (if I read you right) which would gel if they are buying bandwidth and rack space at verio. On the issue of reselling I personally tell my clients that I'm reselling but that's because like you: a) I don't like to lie b) because my service deliberately adds value by offering an interface between the tech at the reseller and them... 99% of my clients won't be able to troubleshoot a problem and would rather let me do it. c) All my hosting is for sites I've designed and have been contracted to maintain. I don't host 3rd party sites. That way there's only 2 people responsible, me and my host. I hope that answers your questions from my own personal point of view anyways... Martin

Posted by auyongtc, 07-08-2001, 09:39 AM
I'm a reseller with VO, I would know... They're indeed NOT lying... VO used to be colocated with VDI, until their recent outage problems and other mishaps, VO decided to move out and got themselves a private suite in Verio's datacenter in Denver, CO. I'm a reseller with them and I'm really satisfied with their services and prompt support. Do check them out

Posted by Jonathan K., 07-08-2001, 10:14 AM
Thanks for your comments, Websnail You've been quite helpful. auyongtc, don't you mind that a tracert shows the routing going through Verio? I understand, from reading VO forums, that this was a recent thing. Were you completely anonymous before and/or don't mind what your clients might find out if they do a tracert on your domain? Or perhaps what I should ask is that is there anyway at all for a reseller to remain totally anonymous?

Posted by auyongtc, 07-08-2001, 10:22 AM
Well jon... Why bother about that? Trust me, I'm proud to let my clients know that my hosting services are located on Verio's backbone... as they are a very reputable provider. Previously while on VDI, the trace will show VDI's route via Level3 or Alter (UUnet). Trust me, just be calm and collected and let your clients (or prospective clients) know that you're separate from Verio's hosting services, but are based on their NOC

Posted by WebSnail.net, 07-08-2001, 10:23 AM
To be honest... the only way you could be COMPLETELY annoymous would be if you bought a pipe that ran from everyones house over your own network, to your own servers... The tracert issue is not a major one but you are leaning on it a bit more than necessary.. The traceroute will pass through many different servers belonging to many different companies and individuals/groups so under your supposed definition of "independent" it'd be impossible to not appear to be part of lots of different providers. To be honest I think you need to read up a little more on traceroute and get to understand the concept better. At the moment it sounds like someone has given you half a story and you're pursuing it as a full truth. That's not a criticism but a gently hint to research the issue a bit more. It'll make more sense then. Cheers Martin

Posted by Jonathan K., 07-08-2001, 10:45 AM
Yes, I guess perhaps I am making it a bigger issue out of it than it really is. I don't really mind constructive criticisms too. I don't mind admitting when I'm wrong either. I have lots to learn. Anyways, thanks to you both for your help and I appreciate both of your comments!

Posted by davidb, 07-08-2001, 10:47 AM
I havent seen their packages, but like communitech gives a standerd lower price from what I remember, not based on how many you sell, if VO does something like that, then this is one honest road you can take. A. First say you are reselling B. Offer the packages at a lower price C. Try to keep equal or better support, which will most likely be hard because of the less profit you get. I know those are not easy to do, but its the best way, and you might beable to keep a good repitation. Of course you will get people wanting to cut out the middle man and go stright to VO. Just an idea

Posted by Jonathan K., 07-09-2001, 03:29 PM
Thanks Davidb VO does offer a 50% discount to resellers for all their packages. I will take your comments into much consideration.

Posted by Chicken, 07-09-2001, 08:21 PM
A trace won't definitively tell you anything for particular. if you trace my site, you'll see it goes to tera-byte, where I lease a server. Before I leased this certain one, I colo'd a server there. There is absolutely no way you would be able to tell the difference. Now I could just have a virtual account there, and you still wouldn't be able to see much difference unless you dug deeper and tried to find out the actual server name the hosting account was on, but now you'd be guessing as to what that really meant (as I could have named my server anything). IP lookups are similar in that although you can tell who the IP is registered to, you often can't tell if a host is using a virtual account, a leased server, or colo'ing their own servers.

Posted by Jonathan K., 07-10-2001, 01:27 AM
Thanks Chicken, for your clarification. I guess there is no real way of finding out about the host except if one visited the actual physical location where the servers are kept and wring the truth out from whoever's there.

Posted by Chicken, 07-10-2001, 10:17 PM
Forceful wringing is always an option, heh - though you could try asking them too. Not everyone is truthful, but I've never had a reason to mislead anyone about what I do nor how I do it.

Posted by TechnoHosts, 07-10-2001, 11:14 PM
f5hosting resells VO and they're a real respected host. VO is great



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